Didn't you know that firefighters think it is their contractual obligation to double park and block sidewalks. They have a whole line of reserved parking spaces right across the street next to a school but its too far to walk.

Well, their parking is going to shrink even more when the driveways of the new buildings that went up next to the firehouse start getting use.

The school is one of the closed Catholic Schools in Queens. I'm sure they could use the school lot if they just asked the church.

I will say i've never seen them in the bus stop which is right next to them and the double parking hasn't been an issue when i've driven by... then again grand ave is extra wide at that location.

At the risk of being repetitious, for the benefit of Firehouse neighbor, here's the entire parking provision from the UFA contract:

==
Article XXVI - Parking Facilities

To the maximum extent practicable and consistent with City policy, parking spaces up to a maximum of six spaces per company, will be made available for the cars of employees adjacent to, part of, or as close as possible to firehouses, and such spaces will be marked appropriately. The Department will issue appropriate parking permits for the designated spaces. The UFA shall notify the Department, the Transportation Administration, and the Commissioner of Labor Relations of any requests for parking spaces. The City shall have 10 days to respond to such requests. If the response is a denial, it shall be specific as to the reasons. If the UFA disagrees with any such denial, it shall inform the Commissioner on Labor Relations as to the specific reasons for its disagreement, and may refer the matter to the Impartial Panel for advisory arbitration.
==

so basically 12 spots per house for fd... so during tour changes they will probably be doubled up... great planning on the city's part

Are parking permits considered part of taxable income? How much does it cost to park in NYC daily? If the folks who have/use these permits aren't paying what the rest of us would have to pay to park our cars, isn't it like income and shouldn't they be paying taxes on the "income"? Perhaps y'all should forward these postings to the IRS...

It's a *maximum* of six per company on a best efforts basis... "to the maximum extent practicable and consistent with City policy" is a loophole you could drive, well, a firetruck through.

So basically, the City puts signs up when it's "practicable", and tells the UFA to pound sand otherwise, but the union tells the membership everyone has a contractual right to drive to work, without explaining the inconvenient fact that this "right" is conditioned on "practicability" and "City policy" and involves a limited number of spaces at best. Nobody's being honest and nobody's expectations are being properly set.

Thus, the sidewalk parking, the double parking, and the attitude.

well, there is no accurate cost... parking in midtown compared to parking in bronx precincts. Some precincts have their own parking lots... if the location offers parking to its employees that is not open to the public is it taxable?

what about officers assigned to the range or drivers training? there is no mass transit to either location... you have to drive to work there (and drive to get there when you have training)

if and when the city puts a price on a parking buyout (x dollars a year for those wishing to forgo the permit and use mass transit) you will probably have a taxable figure

don't worry too much tho... all cops that live outside the city still pay city taxes (its called the "waiver")... so the city is getting paid for those permits by all those that commute from outside the five boros ;)

damn, you mean the city and the union are in cahoots to flim-flam city workers? say it ain't so sal... please... i'm going to lose faith in the system... (like i really had any)

Oh, I rather think that the IRS could put a figure to the value...

i'm sure if they had an interest to they would have already

i suspect that the reason the unions aren't asking for (or are even receptive to) cash in lieu of parking is that it would set a value

they already tax my uniform allowance ;)

Where is FD going to park over there??? They put up an apartment building right next to the house. What if they just stayed home, what would the citizens of NY do??? There is absolutely no parking in that area so between shifts they double park is it really that big of a problem? How about NYC's Civil Servants start a web site and we vent against idiot citizens, unfortunately that site would take up to much space.

an apt building with driveways... and an eyesore at that... but i digress

did the teacher only parking on the other side of the school ever revert to regular parking (53rd ave i think)... if not that alone should supply the fire fighters all the parking they need

Mass transit is available 24 hours a day in this area - 4 bus lines and 2 subway trains are a block away. Otherwise drive down a couple blocks and find a legal spot, or pay for parking just like everyone else has to do. The hundreds of employees at the Queens mall dont get too illegally park all day long on their work shift. Why should city employees? Traffic is bad enough as it is. We don't need all this constant illegal parking day and night making it worse.

If you want to stay home go ahead. Then we could hire city residents for the job who could take mass transit, and who would appreciate the salary and benefits that the job pays.

New Yorkers have to much time on their hands. Insted of worring about the NYC Firefighters who save lives worry about the homeless take pictures of them on the streets and start a web site to help them. Just imagine the firefighters not wanting to go to work because they cant find parking. I would like to see the average citizen run into a burning building. Nobody seems concerned about the GREEDY developers who put buildings in any little space in Manhattan just to make a buck without supplying afordable housing. I cant even find a gas station in Manhattan unsless I go uptown or to another borough. Who cares if these guys and gals double park as long as I can drive through the block I DONT CARE. GIVE COPS AND FIREFIGHTERS RAISES. Maybe then they can park inside of garages.

Civil servants cant complain because its expected that they have a thick skin. Cops get spit on and cursed out because they have to enforce the law. After Sept 11th I was everybodys best friend until I had to write my fist summons. THANKS

#14... you probably couldn't hire city residents... not enough to cover retirements and attrition.

Their job pays the same as mine... while their work chart is better then mine, the city can't hire the cops it needs to fill its academy just too keep up with attrition. These aren't jobs that hire all that apply. They don't even hire 1 in 10 that PASS the exams... most never get past the beginning process (background checks, physical tests, psych tests, drug tests, etc.

I'm a city resident... i can't live in the precinct i work in, and out of the academy i was sent to a precinct that took a bus, to a train, to a train, to a bus... leaving work at 2 am i often saw the sun before i found my bed... mass transit did not work for me.

Neither FD or PD takes into account that that are city residents when it gives out your assignment... i had 3 commands i could have gotten to in 30 minutes via mass transit... instead my commute hit nearly 4 hrs on track work nites.

Actually, the city has never been very good at finding me commands that mass transit would work well for me.

If you want more cops and firemen taking mass transit you need to force those jobs to assign city residents to precincts / firehouses that are convenient via mass transit. You can snipe at the city workers all you want... much of your complaints are founded. If you want to actually start solving the problem you have to set your sites higher at City Hall.

THE CITY Cant hire enough QUALIFIED cops. Citizens will have nothing to worry about (parking permit abuse) because the cops are dwindling away! Just look at the numbers! And if you think the pays is great just ask the guys who have to work 3 jobs just to survive!

#13 Do the employees at the Queens mall save lives? I don't think so. I think that is a small price to pay for the security of knowing that if you had a fire, firefighters will show up, if you got robbed cops would show up, and even more elusive to tell, if you did not get robbed was it because the cops out there catching criminals before they can commit the act. It happens everynight in this city. Some of the abuses are unexcusable ie: blocking hydrants, but double parking between shifts, or other small infractions people need to stop crying about. It is the administration that forces us to write summones that people are so pissed off about, that is why this site is here. People getting summones and then seeing city employees get away with the same thing and they think it is unfair, well people life is unfair. Is it right? Probably not, but it is a small perk that we get for risking our lives and trying to keep this city safe (I know no one forced me to do this job and I can quit if I don't like it). I like doing my job, yes the pay sucks big time, but I deal with it. For most of us mass transit is not an option. When normal people get off of work at 5pm there are lots of options with scheduals, when I get off I would have to wait for three hours for my first ride home, when I can drive home in 30 minutes. That is a no brainer there.

How about all the People who Double park during alternate side Parking? The Police look the other way how about we start ticketing all those double parkers , But where will all those cars park?? Who cares, you only care when it doesnt involve you.

You certainly have a lot of excuses for breaking the law,inconveniencing people, blocking traffic and sidewalks, parking in bus stops etc. Everyone else that works in NYC seems to be able to manage to get to work without parking illegally. Many of these people make less than you too, and have difficult jobs also. Hardly anyone in the business world has a strictly 9-5 job either. Even Queens mall employees work various shifts,nite times and weekends. They somehow manage to get back and forth to work.
And like I said before this firehouse is next 2 subway lines, and 4 buses.
Also, these firefighters are blocking traffic on Grand Avenue during the day time and rush hours, not just in the middle of the night.

TO annoyed you just seem like an angry little person. Stop telling us that YOU pay our salaries. I don't give a rat's A**. I also pay taxes into the city coffers and I don't even live in the city, so essentially I pay my own salary also. Stop being so angry that cops and firefighters get to park illegally around their respective places of employement. If you are so pissed off about it go to city hall, but don't be pisses when the door hits you in the a** on your way out. We are given contractual perks for parking in and around our precincts and firehouses. The only way to get rid of it is take it out of our contracts and that will never happen. I think a little inconvienence once a day, during the firefighters tour change, is acceptable. What would happen if you called 911 when your house is on fire and no one shows up? Knowing that will never happen because we have the worlds greatest and most professional firefighters in this crumbling city. They will always show up no matter how much you hate them. Cops will always show up when you call no matter how much you hate us. We are professionals. If this website makes you feel better by venting then so be it, have at it buddy. Thats the good about this site. Make all the complaints you want. I will say only about 10 to 20% of the problem will be fixed through this site. It does have an affect to a certain degree, but for a solution that will never happen. Stop being so ANNOYED and try and live life a little. If parking issues really piss you off then I cannot imagine when something big in your life happens, you must go ballistic!!

#26 The clear description on the post is that this is not incidental or occasional double parking -- it's for extended periods of time throughout the day.

Double parking is illegal for a reason -- it severely disrupts traffic.

I agree that annoyed's argument "we pay your salaries" is, well, annoying, and not a very good argument. This sort of personal attack on PD and FD is not very constructive, since the evidence is emerging that the line personnel are in fact *told* (incorrectly) that they are guaranteed the right to park in this way.

But see comment #3 above -- no collective bargaining agreement I've reviewed so far gives firefighters, police or any other city worker the right to park illegally. The law provides for illegal parking in an emergency. Commuting, however, is not an emergency.

And I simply don't think that PD, FD & the others realize the steady corrosive effect on community relations caused by this practice. Annoyed could be nicer, and could argue better, but this is the sort of thing we heard from our neighbors and friends over and over again before we started this site.

This, by the way, is the provision in the PBA contract. Note the lack of authorization to park illegally (and the copious weasel words and loopholes); also note that it's such a tenuous perk that it's explicitly exempted from the grievance procedure:

Art. XVI, Sec. 2:

It is the intent of the Department to make available without liability to the City, City-owned property and on-street location adjacent to, near or part of police stations or other command locations, as parking facilities for the personal cars of employees. A single designated representative of the Department and a single designated representative of the PBA will jointly request of the appropriate City agency designation of such locations. This expressed intent of the Department does not imply any obligation or commitment on the part of the City or the Department to make available any such location or parking facilities. Where such property is provided and so designated for this purpose, the City shall not be obligated to improve the same, nor to maintain it for parking. The City need not continue to provide such property for parking when the City, in its discretion, decides to make a different use of it.

All inquiries or complaints from employees concerning the subject matter or application of this section shall be referred directly to the PBA for investigation and review. The PBA shall screen and thereafter shall present only those inquiries or complaints which it believes are justified to the Commanding Officer of the Office of Labor Relations of the Police Department, or the Commanding Officer's designee, for discussion and possible adjustment.

This Section shall not be subject to the grievance procedure.

I know a firehouse in Brooklyn with it's own parking lot and the FD would rather double-park or park on the sidewalk. Near me they do the same thing. I don't care so much about the double-parking as long as it doesn't block traffic, but really, parking on a sidewalk is just plain rude.

I love when people tell the great FF and PD of this city that they pay your salary.Do cops and FF not pay taxes or something? if thats so where do i get this job? Guys have no fear for every miserable clown like this guy there are 4 that support you dont take it to heart ,just look at the picture,the coward was to scared to even get off the bus and take this photo. It was such a great concern that he didnt even get off the bus to take it and address the situation....

#31: FYI, the second and third pictures (not visible to the public) are not from the bus.

Hey ANNOYED thanks for paying our salary on Behalf of the NYC Police Dpartment can we have a raise its been over 2 years without a contract. And you say the Fire Department needs more diversity any ideas??? The recruitment section is all but telling minorities just show up and we will hire you but alas you can lead a horse to water etc.... How about we take the most qualified for a very dangerous job and throw all the other nonsense out. Becoming a firefighter or a Police Officer is a calling and a noble profession you can't force somone to do a very dangerous job just to fill race quotas. If a Queens mall employee fails to show up to work no ones life is in danger if a firehouse doesnt show up it puts a strain on other houses and puts peoples lives in danger. The problem will be around forever the city is to crowded and the problem will not change.

I like you Salguod. You seem to be an intelligent person and respective towards everyone gripes. I have read the above many times. I don't see anywhere that it says we have to park legally. I interpret that as the city and the department has an obligation to designate areas around commands for the personnel to park (I may be a cop but I am not an idiot and I can interpret legal mumbo jumbo with the best of them). That means SEZ. Meaning summones are not to be written in those locations. I think hydrants are a bad thing to park in front of. I have never parked in front of one in my career and never will. As for other infractions, then the only thing I can say is people can try and work with the PD and FD in those specific locations, but don't expect a satisfactory response. The only solution for this whole problem is to have the city provide us with enough parking, as per what the above states, obviously that is not the case so we are forced to utilize the SEZ to our advantage. Stubborn? Yes. Egotisical? Maybe. But it is someone that we need in order to keep this city from crumbling. People don't realize that this city is slowing reverting back to the ways of my childhood, because most of the people on this site live in good neighborhoods and don't see it. Keep up the good fight, maybe things will get better for us when the city gives us proper parking and all the good citizens on this site and start working on real problems, welfare reform, horrible school system, increasing crime rate (don't believe what the department's pencil pushers say), and some of the many other problems that plagues this city. I enjoy these discussions.

You're right, the contract doesn't say you have to park legally -- that's only a requirement of the NYC Parking Rules & the VTL (which have exceptions for emergencies, but not for parking). There have been a lot of claims that the contract was a magic wand that explained the practices we see -- whatever the thing says, it's not a slam-dunk "go forth and park on the sidewalk." I'm increasingly convinced that there are two contracts, the one on paper and the one that the PBA and UFA reps tell their members.

And you're right -- it's foolish to expect people to get tickets, as such, for parking in the SEZ. However, there's that pesky "E" in SEZ. It's ultimately the C.O.'s responsibility to run his command in such a way that it doesn't look like a third-world tow yard for a block radius around it, doesn't (further) alienate the community, doesn't block hydrants or sidewalks and doesn't completely un-do the work of the traffic planners at DOT by clogging up no standing and no stopping zones.

So with respect to SEZs it's clear where the main force of pressure needs to go (hint: not so much at the individual who is parking). True, everyone should know you don't block a hydrant, even if your union and your C.O. told you could, but I don't see quite the same level of culpability. This is why I get pissed off at the knee-jerk anti-cop stuff that people come up with here. This is a very complicated situation, and a big part of why it's so complicated is that the bureaucrats for years (decades?) would rather sweep this problem under the carpet than confront it head-on.

That damn lumbering beast is a real PITA, ain't it Salgoud? heh

So after 24 hours and 36 comments it boils down to:
The FD and the PD members feel that the city must provide parking for them.
The "Idiot Citizens" (see comment 11)say, maybe thats true but it does not include double parking, parking on sidewalks and blocking crosswalks.

#38 -- yes, and of course your complaint will be part of our ongoing follow up program. The discussions here are valuable, though, because they help us anticipate the arguments we get as we forward these complaints to disciplinary officers, supervisors, etc. within various agencies.

"Firehouse Neighbor" can you come up with any viable solutions to this problem where would you like us to park? Please let us know. Most of these Pcts and Firehouses have been in place for many many years and are being surrounded by houses in an already overcrowded city. I think during previous posts mass transit was mentioned, but like was discussed with are hectic schedules and long hours it is not a valid solution. If this site makes you feel better so be it. As for fowarding complaints to disciplinary Officers, good luck its going to fall on deaf ears I can assure you. Please continue to RANT and vent against us like was posted before we will still respond when you need us we are all professionals with no axe to grind with the population we protect. All we ask is cut us some slack we dont wake up in the morning and say we are going to piss off the citizens of New York and park werever we please its just the way it is we need to get to work and we need to park our cars.

funny how I was in battery park city today around 5 PM and there were two blocks of black lincoln livery cars parked ilegally half with their engines idoling. I bet some of the cars were waiting to Pick up admins. legal team who work at high end law firms. but since they are not cops let's not pick on them.

#43 you are so right! Where I work there are alot of the "BLACK TOWN CARS" double and triple parked blocking traffic on a 4 lane avenue no less. And they are not even picking up clients from their place of employment. They are picking up at bars and resturaunts and dare I blow the horn to get them to move. There are times I cant even park my car to get to work" on time" and this is around a Government facility(NO MASS TRANSIT AVAIL). If I complained to my supervisor about starting work late he would laugh at me especially if I was to take pictures so he could believe me. I think CRY BABY would be the right term. But I dont write those guys summonses because there are somethings in NY you can never change and it's not even worth crying about.These FF are double parked outside their station and they are working give them a break! ANNOYED I would like to see you on the Avenue moving the BLACK TOWN CARS and taking pictures because after a couple minutes you will be to busy calling 911 looking for help.

The discussions here are valuable, though, because they help us anticipate the arguments we get as we forward these complaints to disciplinary officers, supervisors, etc. within various agencies.

Comment by Salguod (moderator) on Tue, Apr 03 2007 05:13 PM

Salguod , thanks for making me laugh uncontrollably. As if the supervisors of the NYPD and FDNY will curb parking conditions within thier self enforcement zones.
Oh my god, even now I can't read your quote without laughing out loud. Let me gut this straight, you are assuming that I would get some sort of discipline for parking in a SEZ by a supervisor that parks his car next to mine in the same manner.

I just can't stop laughing.

Why are there so many Anonymous commenters? Its so easy to set up a name.
One of them "just can't stop laughing"
He should remember that public opinion is a very powerful thing.
There are 8 million city residents that may have an opinion vs 50 thousand cops and firemen half of which live outside of the city and don't vote.
Does he think the 50 thousand will get more weight than the 8 million voters?
90 % of them do park in their reserved spots.
They should explain to the 10% about the reasons they should show a little respect to the general public.

I am a civil servant who just happens to work for this ungreatful city and I proudly lump myself into that 10% group that you hate so much for parking outside of a self enforcementment zone. I wasn't always like this. This attitude came about over years of being spat upon by the general public. I can honestly say that I am a product of my environment. In a city where the politicians and the public don't give a crap about the indecent pay that it's hard working officers and firefighters are getting, why should I give a hoot about clogging up the streets or a bike lane of the city? The people here can hoot and hollar about how change is eventually coming but I know that it will not come in time before I retire. Till then, do not expect our attitudes to waiver either. Change is a wonderful thing but in this case it most possibly will take an eternity especially since our pay is connected to the level of abuse being witnessed. Improve the pay and the parking situation will most likely dwindle away.

FN - This is not the political hot potato that you think it is. This is a small issue in a big pond of issues. It is important to you and others because it directly effects you... it is important to me as both a resident of this city and a police officer.

8 million voters don't care about this issue... I doubt 800k voters care, let alone 80k voters. This is a big issue to a small segment of this city.

The issue needs to be addressed and rectified... calling out obnoxious posts from anonymous posters isn't helping either side of the issue. In any case, the anon posters seem to be split between the two sides of the issue.

Public opinion against cops isn't going to swing based upon abuse of parking permits... public opinion swings based on the media, and the media has had cops in it's sights for a while.

By the way , I dont hate cops and firemen. I support you 90 percent of the time. But in this situation, you are wrong. I know people that had their driveway blocked by a personal vehicle with a NYPD sticker on it several times. They had to get to work and couldnt get out. Is that right? Do you condone that? Isn't that taking advantage and not caring about the neighborhood residents?

Annoyed easy with the taxpayers paying our salary bit, Frankly its getting old. We civil servants pay taxes so stick to the subject. And I believe that doing a very dangerous job with low pay we are entitled to the decent benefits that come with this job. I seriously doubt that any Officer with a parking plaque is deliberately blocking anyones driveway, and if they are call your local Precinct they will come and rectify the problem.

Blocking driveways has happened, and they had to walk to the local precinct to get it addressed.
The median NYC household income is about 48k, so quit complaining about your low pay. I believe yours is higher than that after a few years plus you get overtime and generous benefits. Most other workers are productive more than 10 percent of the day too. 22,000 applicants just took the last FDNY test. bad. We are getting a little tired of the low pay excuse for breaking the law.

This what residents near the 104th precinct of Ridgewood and Glendale say about the parking situation there: from Timesnewsweekly article May 22,07.

the current state of parking around the police station as “horrendous” with vehicles constantly occupying spaces in front of fire hydrants or blocking intersections.

Many of these parking violations, he added, aren’t being enforced.

its March 22,07, not May

Folks -- try to play nice. We will continue delete comments that are personally abusive, call names, etc. (and those that respond to them).

Annoyed -- we'd love to see more new posts w/pictures and less rhetoric. Also, the "I pay your salary" argument is incredibly tired.

Bryan1 -- we'd stop deleting your posts if you stopped calling names and making personal attacks.

my last comment on the pay issue. Even if for some reason u feel u are underpaid - this does give you the right to break laws.

Sol,My last comment did not have 1 name calling incident in it......you let this "Guy" hope that is ok,rant on and on about non issues,but god forbid somebody finds the need to call him out ......anyway as you see he has nothing to add to your big bad battle

imagine if the public finds out, aside for free parking we have 28 vaction days, and unlimited sick time. if we get hurt in the line of duty it is tax free. never miss a pay check if we break a limb riding a bicycle. my pension is gauranteed 8% intrest, I contribute and extra 50 percent. my 457 unlike a 401k I can start receiving payments after retirement with no tax penalties, which I have over 150k(vangaurd) my pension should be about 6k per month and I will be 42yrs old. I paid 120,000. for my house in bayridge now it is worth 650k. Not a bad job for a guy with a high school diploma.

Well, I for one don't begrudge you a dime of that. Now get your #*$% car off the sidewalk and stop double parking. :-)

you see,some nice funny banter for once......amen

Oh hell, let people have a free for all. Let peopel say what they want about cops and let the cops say what they want about people. This is the only way to really clear the air.

Doug you are doing a great job with this site. keep up the good work. I think us cops should also do our park with our personal cars outside the SEZ area.

Where I live in lower Manhattan, I have absolutely no problem with Firefigthers double parking in front of their own vehicles, I don't mind if they park on the sidewalk on occassion or in some other non kosher spot. My only concern is that if there is a fire in my building, they respond as quickly as possible as it would be disastous for me to lose my place of abode.

If Bloomie is looking for a firehouse to close down as he was several months ago, the one in this post should be on top of the list seeing how much the local resident appreciate its presence.

Now what about all the yellow cabs that park 15 to 20 at any given time in local legal residential spots? That is what I have a problem with. At least the FD are courteous enough not to take up residential parking. Who is doing something about the cabbiies taking up residential parking?

#75, their "courtesy" is misplaced. When firefighters park on the sidewalk they inconvenience a lot more people than when they park in residential parking.

I'd think it's obvious, but just in case it isn't I'll make it clear that firefighters can park wherever they need to when they're responding to a fire, and I support that 100%; it's the commuter parking I'm objecting to.

It is not as easy as it sounds to take mass transit to work when you are a firefighter. Many times when you show up to work you are sent to work in a different firehouse, sometimes in a different boro. What are you supposed to do when you take a train to a firehouse in Queens, then are told you are working in Staten Island that day?

I am really not sure what motivates the people who post photos here. Some are clearly disturbed people with authority issues who would bear malice toward any form of government administration. Walk by almost any auto repair shop in the city ( there are literally hundreds within a one mile radius of this post) and you will see cars doubled parked, parked on sidewalks, etc. I don't think we are going to hear a squeak about that. And why not? Because this is a site which targets government workers and not entrepreneurial business types. But government leaders know clearly that there are sound policy and public safety reasons to issue parking permits to first responders and that it would court disaster not to. There may be some incontinences experienced by the general public as a result, both real or merely perceived, but that is all taken into the calculus. Most non-essential civil servants do not get street parking permits contrary to the impression given here. Some posters have ranted about the lack of "democracy" in the permit process...but in the final analysis they are speaking about anarchy not democracy.

We can be sure that the Anon in #78 is a permit holder and the "clearly disturbed people" are upset with the abuse of the permits.
They are commuters just like all the rest of us, not first responders, until the go to the firehouse or police station and put on their uniform.
The only ones complaining aboout this site are the people who are suddenly aware that their contractual parking privledge is not written in stone, and if we complain long an loud enough it may be changed.

So anon 79, you don't think your statement that 'contractual parking privledge is not written in ston' is a contradiction in terms. The rest of your statement is incomprehensible. Take a deep breath and try again.

Anon #77: If you take a train to a firehouse in Queens, and then your boss tells you you're working in Staten Island, then the city should pay for a car service to take you to Staten Island, and one to take you home if necessary. How hard is that?

Anon #78: I can't speak for anyone else, but I'll explain it from my point of view. Yes, it does piss me off when I see car repair techs parking the cars on the sidewalk. What's even worse are the car dealers who use the sidewalk as their sales lot, and the car washes who wipe down cars on the public sidewalk.

I've called 311 and haven't had much luck. I suspect it's because the police drive and park on the sidewalk too, and thus identify with the car dealers and not with me.

A number of officers have threatened in comments here to enforce parking laws against civilians. If they did, maybe their abuses wouldn't bother me so much.

I will type slowly so that Anon 80 can read this.
Take a look at # 3 and # 29 if you want incomprehensible.
In your contract the City says it may try to set aside parking unless it decides to use the space for some other purpose. at least the Firefighters have a set number of 6 spots per company.
But no where in the contract is anything said that after the reserved spots are full you can then park on the sidewalk or any illegal spot, it just is not there.
As Salguod says elsewhere. This will not happen in 3 or 6 months but if we continue to complain and we document the lack of response it will be changed.

So #81, what do you think when you realize that an entire sector of the city’s economy depends on illegal sidewalk and double parking to run a profitable business? At least with sidewalk cafes, the city generates revenue on the fees. I don’t think they do in the case of auto sales, repair, and wash businesses. (Hopefully, I am wrong.) I also don’t think your blaming the situation on the police has any basis in reality. You don’t think a well placed phone call by a local council or assembly member on behalf of a loyal contributing constituent is more likely the reason? Don’t lose any sleep over it. You seem like you are a very well intentioned individual, but I think like a lot of people who post here you are tilting at windmills.

At a certain period of time, the 1930’s thru the 1960’s, urban planners and politicians made a decision to build highways to the detriment of mass transit, to encourage automobile traffic to and from bedroom suburban communities. Highways were a heck of lot cheaper than mass transit operation and infrastructure to strap the tax payers with. I was reading just yesterday how construction on the Second Avenue subway had been stopped not once or twice but four times for lack of funding. The bottom line is that we are currently living out that legacy. But nowadays, with a societal reverse migration to the cities from the suburbs, even the once empty Wall Street canyons are suddenly budging with coops and condos. Do you really think it is reasonable that all of these urban pioneering newcomers suddenly throw up a tantrum and demand that everyone else stop driving in and rely on an underdeveloped mass transit system? If any thing else, it was certainly predictable.

#83, I appreciate your thoughtful comments. But I don't understand what you mean about sidewalk cafes. Sidewalk cafes are legal and not parking. What's the connection to illegal sidewalk parking?

If car dealers, repair shops and car washes are dependent on illegal parking to be profitable, then they shouldn't be in business. We don't need them here, because the vast majority of us take the train. If motorists want to buy cars, let them do it in Paramus. People on Curbed have been crying over the loss of gas stations in Manhattan; I say good riddance.

As far as the source of corruption, I agree that it's possible that businesses who park on the sidewalk could wield their influence to get the cops to look the other way. But am I naive to think that if the cops in question were pedestrians themselves, they'd be less likely to go along with this corruption?

Tilting at windmills, am I? There's a section (at least one) of Northern Boulevard where a small car dealer has taken over most of the sidewalk. When I walk there with my four-year-old son, that forces us to the edge of the sidewalk, just inches from the speeding traffic. And we're not the only ones who walk there; there are plenty of other people who are similarly inconvenienced. Why is it unreasonable to ask the NYPD to enforce the laws that are intended to give me and my son a minimum amount of safety?

A trantrum? Urban pioneering newcomers? My family has been living continuously in New York City for almost a hundred years. Some of us did the "white flight" thing, others did the "back to the land" thing, but some of us stuck it out and lived happily among the nonwhite people because we liked not having to manipulate a two-ton deathtrap to buy a quart of milk. We've been quietly seething for years at your casual disregard for our lives; it's only now that our complaints are being paid attention to by anyone.

Nobody forced you to move to the suburbs; if you'd stayed in the city it probably wouldn't have been as dangerous as it was. Most of the time you white-flighters like to gloat at us over your backyards and your Ford Explorers; now you call us privileged children? Make up your minds!

84. just knew that tilting at windmills line would get your blood going. And yes, it is a complete disaster out there in autoland but it just strikes me as strange that in the middle of all that havoc, that the locals direct their anger at their firehouse. When your house is on fire, can you call the car dealer to put it out? You mentioned you have called 311 to no avail (because the police are corrupt). I was just wondering what kind of feedback you are getting when you bring this ussue up at you community board meetings? You have been going to those, haven't you?

BTW I don't live in the suburbs and am not a firefighter. In fact, growing up I have always thought of the suburbs as Forest Hills or Middle Village...out there in queens where you live. By urban pioneering newcomers, I wasn't refering to Queens residents, but people who move into formerly empty civic centers like below canal street and suddenly wnat all the government vehicles that have been there for decades to disappear.

As for sidewalk cafes, they obstruct sidewalks as much as anything else like parked cars. Most of the early ones were illegal until the city decided it need to step in and regulate them. Now you have to get community board approval in order to open one and pay a hefty annual fee to the city. So you see, government can work for you. My only point is that the sidewalk parking chaos at auto businesses in the particular section of queens serviced by this FD does not seem to be so regulated.

#85-- this is the most coherent expression of this argument so far, and I think it deserves a serious response.

It would seem that private parkers are, in some ways, a more logical target. But there are at least three reasons why this site is focused on abuse by public employees and not private citizens and businesses:

1. Many of us (especially me) are primarily involved in this site because we see the problem of permit abuse to be primarily a "good government" problem, not a "traffic engineering" problem. I strongly believe that illegal parking by police and firefighters (a) has a corrosive effect on community relations, (b) has a "broken windows" effect on less visible forms of corruption, and (c) replaces an interagency process for carefully evaluating parking designations and balancing competing concerns with the whim of individual parkers and/or the commanding officers of individual units.

2. As we investigate the situation further, it is becoming increasingly apparent that systematic parking abuse by private citizens and businesses is deeply intertwined with and enabled by illegal parking by city employees. That is, a blind eye is turned to citizen illegal parking and permit abuse in exchange for silence about police illegal parking. If government illegal parking can be substantially cleaned up, it will eliminate a major motivation to turn a blind eye to private sector illegal parking.

3. We have far more tools available to us for addressing government parking abuse and abuse of government-issued permits than for abuse by private citizens. We have FOIL, misconduct complaints, legislation, and a variety of potential lawsuits that can be brought to bear on illegal government parking. Our options are more limited with respect to private citizens.

Salgood, your response noted. I will reply when I have the opportunity as you have sove very interesting things to say which need to be addressed. Meantime, chech out Anon 82. You got a little hero worship and cult of personality thing going with your little TA foot soldiers. ( I can hear you laughing and will fully understand if this post is deleted.)

#87 -- no problem, you may have noticed that we preserve (and encourage) non-abusive, substantive posts that disagree with us. I even delete my own posts for abuse. :-)

And yeah, if my "cult" is one that's advocating slow, steady pressure combined with dry, legal analysis instead of POSTING IN ALL CAPS ABOUT HOW COPS SUCK Or Having Long Run On Sentences Pointlessly Pointing Out The Obvious Featuring Inappropriate Initial Caps then I'm a happy guy.

Also, while *I* can see that you're the same person from post to post (as long as you have the same IP address) the non-moderators can't. So if you're going to make more than one sensible post, why not start your own cult of personality and register a username? We don't even ask for an email, but a username links your comments together and may lead to slightly more coherent discussion.

#83/85/87, I think Salguod answered the question about the rationale for the site. And I agree with his suggestion that you create a login.

I don't know the history of sidewalk cafes, but I imagine that there were precedents for legalizing and regulating them from other cities like Paris . Although you have a point that sidewalk cafes are only valuable when they are open-air; otherwise they're just an extension of the restaurant.

Middle Village - no, I don't live that far out in Queens, and I don't think any of the other parts of the city I've lived it could count as suburbs. I have been to one community board meeting, but I didn't raise the issue there. I do know my local community board chair, precinct council chair and precinct community liaison, and I intend to take the issue up with them at some point. But before I do, I want to formulate my strategy properly and make sure that I have enough support lined up.

In the meantime, though, I don't have a problem supporting the strategy of other people like Salguod when it looks promising. And I have no problem accepting help from the "urban pioneers," although in general I think they're a straw man you created. Most of the regular posters on this site seem to be long-term residents; we even had CrosbyMerchant, I wonder whether there's been any progress on that issue.

I feel that all new yorkers should file suit against the city and state agencies and let them feel the heat for their "privliges". The law states that a conspiring against the public good is a crime, then the municipal unions and city agencies are breaking then law and should be punished like any other criminal. If enough "CITIZENS" file suits, just maybe politicians will look into these issues before the next election