SEZ

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY POSTS LIKE THESE AREN'T REMOVED. AS #1 AND #2 STATED THIS IS IN THE SEZ. REMOVE THIS POST IMMEDIATELY!

If this really is a SEZ why are there parking meters? Why are there not signs reserving this as free parking for cops.

I think the concept of a SEZ exists only in the minds of the people who it benefits. The union contract as already posted on this site does not allow parking where ever

Hey #4- at the poor rate the job is getting new recruits there won't be any cops parking in those meters pretty soon beacause there won't be an academy class after this one graduates. Feel free to take the spot.

Is Transportation Alternatives proud to be the city's second string meter maids?

I cam to this site because I thought it was the one where the Wall Street banks--who have entirey city blocks resigned for exclusively for their limos--get blasted because these institutions, which are the bedrock of our society, are acting reprehensibly, getting special consideration, and making harder for the rest of us to have a convenient and safe commute. After all, how hard is it for Lehman to cobble together a bus service to Westchester and the UES?

Instead, I sign on and find out that its about cops not putting quarters into parking meters in a zone that is self-enforced. Geez. I wasted my time.

#4 asks "If this really is a SEZ why are there parking meters?"

Do you really need to have this explained? The city is not going spend the money to rip out parking meters and resign the entire area for every established SEZ. Also, depending on where the precinct and SEZ is, civilians can utilize the spots too. This is not the case for every SEZ, but certain ones in buzy areas co-exist with standard parking rules.

Admit it. You're just pissed because one of the perks of city service is often free parking within the SEZ. A perk that you don't get.

If it really bothers you that a cop gets to park free while at work, you're pretty shallow and need to get a life.

One of the 100% legit reasons to use a NYPD plaque is to park on meters WITHOUT putting quarters in them whether or not its the SEZ which this clearly is. Get over yourself.

Officer Smegma it takes very little to appall you this is not a violation. In the publics eyes we can never do right. No matter where we park we are going to upset some portion of the population its just the nature of the beast.

This is not a "new trainee". Recruits do NOT get parking placards. Infact, they are told NOT to drive to the city, and recuits that must do so hide their cars in garages around the area paying top dollar (Not easy to afford when making the low academy salery).

This car is some cop with time on who works either at the 13th, or the Academy. He is parked correctly, inside the SEZ. (This is also one of the strictest SEZs in the city. It is basically a "No Plaque" area for anyone other then the Academy or the 13th. That is to minimize the disturbance from visiting vechicles who are only there for a few days of training.)

Are you kidding?
Metered parking is not for free for anyone.
Those NYPD,NYFD passes were issued for people coming into work after 9/11,when a disaster ocurred.

That was six years ago.

Unless you are on an emergency call put the quarters in the meter like everyone else.
Or better yet,move to Manhattan,pay the extortionate rent rates like the rest of us and take public transportation.

It is sort of like the guy who I always would see parked on 52nd street in front of the swanky French restaurant Le Perigord with a Doctor on call
pass in his windshield.
Like dentists do house calls, give me a break....

Forgot to mention he has DDR plates.

True enough. Meters in side an SEZ are absolutely free for police officers. This is an acknowledged practice fully within the purview of the law. The principal issue here seems to be ignorance of this fact coupled with a little jealousy.

Moreover, the people who post on this site seem to be one-issue zealots, principally arguing that everyone should be either riding a bicyle or mass transit into NYC. They don't care about street crime and violence reduction because 1) it is not their issue, and 2) they are generally well-educated and prosperous people who live in areas where the chances that it will affect them are extremely miniscule. They apparently have no interest in looking at the wider context of a police officer's life, why she may decide to drive to work, and the different types of uses of the plaque, from legitimate ones to cases of abuse. The issue, as one-issue zealots, is black and white for them. Ironically, they often complain that city law and the NYPD see Critical Mass as similarly black and white issue.

Many of the posters here have no institutional memory, and no sense of this city's history. I really wonder how many of them were even in NYC prior to 1992, when murder peaked at about 2,300 and advertising execs were being randomly shot in the face in the West Village while making pay phone calls, and tourists coming to see the US Open were being knifed to death in the subways as others looked on, horrified and helpless. New York City was a place where the primary daily concern was not dying a grisly, random death in the 85% of the city that was out of control. Parking?!?! People would have let the police park on the sidewalk in front of their own homes if they could just somehow stop the robberies and killings.

And the NYPD did, and is now a victim of its own success. When confronted with a 70%+ crime reduction, posters here will probably argue this happened *despite* the NYPD and not because of it. You just can't change a person's nature. I almost joined TA because I used to bike to work often and think bicycling is a viable form of transportation in NYC. Then, as I read their literature and perused sites like this, I came to understand that I would not be joining an organization that was dedicated to a fair and reasonable discourse. I mean, the cops on here are often the most extreme ones who care to respond to things like this. *And* they are police officers the rest of the time. The TA posters, however, are the mainstream TA activists who are doing their principal work here and still making mistakes and getting it wrong. Nobody denies that there are abuses of privelege to be had in NYC. But this site is filled with all sorts of antagonistic duds.

#25 & #26 -- Thank you for so eloguently and putting your side of the issue into perspective. While I do not condone hydrant parking, I acknowledge the need for legitimate SEZ parking. I was born and raised around the corner from the Academy (and remember the 13 PCT when it was on 22nd street between 1st and 2nd). I have seen both sides of the issue and understand the problems as to why many LE drive to the city rather than take public transportation. A family member is a case in point. He lives in upper Rockland County where off hours public transportation (especially if he makes a late night arrest)is not feasible. Yes, some will say he should move into the city. Just as he made a choice to join the PD, he also made a choice to live outside the city in order to afford to give his family a better life, their own open space, and an investment in a house. Maybe if some of us tried sitting back and imagining what the PD faces each day or night, you will see why some of them are bitter over some of the nit-picking issues raised here (other than hydrants). Maybe if you just sit down with a policeofficer or firefighter over a coffee (I prefer "jack and coke") instead of ranting and raving, then you would get a better understanding of the issues.

I'd love it for one of you kind posters to explain to me EXACTLY what an SEZ is.

Does it legally allow anyone who has a pass to park personal vehicles for free for an 8 hour shift?

I realize police officers on the beat/ NYFD putting out fires don't have an easy job, true.

I think teachers in public schools should be able to get similar passes to allow them to park for free. They have a pretty crappy job as well dealing with a lot of bad kids.

Actually, teachers do have them.

Teachers have their Dept of Education parking plaques also.

Nobody but a teacher can park around a public school during school hours in a zone created for their use by the NYC Department of Transportation, using placards issued to them by the Department of Education. Please feel free to go canvass schools to confirm this fact.

As an aside, teachers have a starting salary of about $44,000 a year. Cops, $25,100. Granted, teachers need a 4-year degree and I believe that children are our future, but cops need two years of college, many have four, and they face much more personal danger on a daily basis. This is not to discredit teachers in any way, but to bring to light the fact thay maybe we ought to lay off cops for using their privelege under the law to not have to feed the meter within a designated SEZ.

A SEZ is an area around any police, fire, or yes even a school, that allows those employees with parking permits to park and not worry about getting summonses. The police in the area know these areas and so do traffic agents and they will not summonses a vehicle within that area. Usually you have to display your permit but for some areas (mainly near police facilities around housing projects) cops won't display permits in their windows simply because local perps will damage those vehicles. Those residents who live near these areas also reap the benefits of the SEZ because summonses just don't get written there because the precinct cops know that it might a fellow cops car. So civilians do get benefits from it to. There are some SEZ that are strictly monitored by the NYPD brass (such as the one posted in this picture) because they are in more affluent areas of the city. This post is a total farse due to the fact that it is a perfectly legal spot, creating no safety hazard whatsoever, and it is within a well recognized SEZ. I understand my fellow officers do abuse the permits at times and things are changing within the department but this is definetly not one of those abuses.

"Cut the Police some slack and realize that there are 3 kidnapped US soldiers in Iraq."

I agree with both of these statements (one a sentiment, the other a fact), but do not see how they are related.

That there are more important things in life than feeding a meter.

To me, a cop parking in a meter space without paying is no big deal. Cops do an important job, we need them, and there are bigger issues. But cops also need to get realistic and stop playing that 9/11 record. When you take a job that involves carrying a gun, you should be aware that you might have to risk your life at some point. It's part of the deal. Don't become a cop if you aren't ready to face that possibility.

BTW, what does three kidnapped soldiers have to do with this thread?

Nobody has answered my question does having a pass allow ANYONE to park their personal vehicles at a meter and not pay?

Yes or no?

Cops: for the benefit of a productive discussion, think before you write. If what you are doing is reasonable and just, and you have the superior position, then you should never, ever have to resort to presonal attacks to make your point and to win the debate.

If you are truly held to a higher standard than the people who run this site, then act like it. A higher standard means remaining calm, stating the truth, and prevailing. Going off about who's a bigger man is not professional. Making remarks about people's lack of a sex life does not justify how you park. There are other ample justifications. Use them.

Stop embarassing your profession with rude attacks. Stop stooping to the level of the people you pride yourself as being above. See if you can control your impulses here like you do on patrol.

Hey #29- If you look at many public schools you'll find that teachers are parking their cars in the school yards, contrary to the intended use of a school yard. Maybe this site should take pictures of those cars too.

40, 41 I am calm. I am very cool. I have 17 years. I am very good at
what I do. Are you guys finished with your little temper tantrum ?
It is not a rude attack. I am constructively helping you. If I tell you
to watch a John Wayne movie or Kurosawa samurai movie, I am trying to
show you how to carry yourself. You should put your efforts into
something a little more useful. If you choose to try to insult me for trying
to help you, then it's your problem. Am I testosterone driven ?... Yeah.
Am I insecure ?... Not even a little bit. I work over by where the car is
parked. I am well known and easy to spot. If you come by we can talk like
gentlemen, but I still suggest you delete this whiny web site. Show these
comments to all my protesters, anarchists, critical mass types, Jeff B.,
Dennis G., etc,, in Union Square. They will smile and tell you who I
am. Your efforts could be used elsewhere. Don't bother to insult me
anymore. I am impervious to it.

405 "violations" since 2/13/2007......91 day total

that amounts to a little more than 4 violations per day.......
How much of a problem is this really?????

And since some of the violations are questionable (SEZ,etc) and/or duplicative, then it actually is probably LESS than 4 per day......

I ask again, HONESTLY, how much of a problem is this really?????

I am a traffic agent and I would never summons a car with a NYPD parking permit. I am sure the officers in blue do the same thing of confronted with a permitted car. If I were to summons a cops car there would be hell to pay for it. It just doesn't happen and I like it this way because when I double park or put my car on a meter I get the same courtesy.

One hand washes the other. Too bad civilian hands are always dirty.

#47 You say "They don't want to hear those excuses from the public, but they're pretty quick to give them."

You are right. WE are tired of hearing excuses from the public, because we get them EVERY TIME! Out of the apx 500+ tickets I've written I have only ONCE gotten "Yes officer, you're right, I did do that." Everyone else has had one type of excuse or another for THEIR actions, so who cares?

(And that number of tickets does not include the 100's I've also let go with a warning when I did feel they deserved one.)

This car is not in the SEZ for the 13th Precinct.

Here is the excerpt from the "Is the Permit Valid" link at the top of the page, which tells you how to determine where the self-enforcement zone is:

NYPD Restricted (Self Enforcement Zone) Permits

Each NYPD precinct and division (e.g. Gang Unit, Transit Bureaus, Narcotics, etc) has the authority to obtain Restricted (aka Self Enforcement Zone) Permits, which are usually un-laminated and colored bright blue, pastel peach, or beige. The precinct or division name is at the bottom of the permit. These permits are only valid when used on the block faces immediately adjacent to the precinct or the division headquarters, and only in the parking spaces on the street (thus, painting parking spaces on sidewalks or in bus stops is illegal). If the permit is used anywhere outside the Self-Enforcement Zone, for example, an officer from the 84 th Precinct in Brooklyn uses his permit anywhere but in the 84 th Precinct Self Enforcement Zone, then it is illegal.

Here is the link to the map showing you where the 13th Precinct is:

http://gis.nyc.gov/doitt/mp/Address.do?brand=NYC&hseNumber=230&strName=East+21st+Street&boro=1

It is clear that Third Ave is not within the 13th Pct. self-enforcement zone.

Apparent LE on this site like to mischaracterize the SEZ to mean they can enforce and obey laws as they please, or not, in some ill-defined zone extending however far from any NYPD facility they happen to be, whether on duty or off, with no accountability to anyone, all because they are "enforcing the law on themselves." In other words, foxes guarding the henhouse. Instead of SEZ, it should be referred to as "FHZ," for fox-henhouse zone.

The only apparent LE comments on this site that make any sense are the ones that explain why SOME NYPD personnel need a parking accomodation in connection with unpredicatable overtime. Those arguments are valid. A primary goal of this site is changing the system so that cops who need a parking accomodation will get one, whether through an expansion of curbside parking that is strictly limited to those who need it, a reimbursement for paid parking, or some other means. That point has been made time and again by the admins, myself, and others on this site. (Admins: you really ought to create a link at the top of the page entitled "The Solution" that explains some of the reasonable proposals that would address the problem).

All the distortions about what an SEZ is, the ad hominen attacks and tired "get a life" commentary, the digressions about the great work NYPD is doing in managing crime, the threats against posters or bicyclists in general, the anonymous bravado about the joys of playing the system . . . it's all because the commenters don't have any rational arguments to explain why they should be permitted to routinely break and selectively enforce the parking laws.

Steve, how old is that definition of an SEZ?

Many precincts have way more cops then parking spots on the block of the precinct. As such, the ICO at the command sets the SEZ. Ususally a few blocks in each direction.

Many commands are filled way beyond their original capacity (for both parking, office space, and locker space). Not to mention that many building are also crumbing, and in horrible shape. (My precinct has a roof that leaks in the rain dirrectly into the locker room, and also onto a working hanging light fixture).

Most police departments other then the NYPD have both parking lots for their employees, and a secure back door in that lot for moving prisoners safely to prevent escape. The NYPD uses horribly antiquated buildings creating not only the parking problem you speak about, but also a prisoner/public safety problem.

I have the solution to all of this: NEW PRECINCTS FOR EVERYONE!

Steve-take another look at the website definition. The website states "The precinct or division name is at the bottom of the permit." Take a look at the sample- Transit Bureau District 30 is NOT at the bottom of the example permit. Does that mean the permit is invalid or the website definition is WRONG?

You guys get hung up on a permit from one command being used in another commands SEZ. As stated many times, cops get transferred. What you may also experience in Manhattan are cops who "fly" to the endless amount of details that take place in Manhattan. They take their own vehicle because their parent command can't spare a department car.

#60 You say "#58 is right but the cops still have to obey the rules. They should get a summons like the rest of us, but have the ability to claim "detail".

Thats great except for the fact that Judges hate us. How many times have I been to traffic court and given PERFECT testimony, only to have the Judge rule against me just because he's felt like it?

I have NEVER flaked a ticket. If I got out of my car, and wrote the summons, I was 100% sure I saw the person do what I said they did. My testimony would reflect that. But sometimes you can tell the Judge just does not like certain cops.

If we had to go threw the motions of getting a ticket as simple as the wrong precincts plaque in another command dismissed because we were on a "detail" it would be a horror story. (Esp since parking ticket fighting is much harder then the moving ticket fighting I mention above). Why not just correct the problem before it happens and not write that summons?

(Oh, and how do you prove being on a detail? They rairly give you any documentation that you were there. Maybe an Overtime slip if you are lucky enough to be doing it on Overtime.)

New York City should structure its parking such that it has preferred street parking for sale to the public and free as a piece of a compensation to its employees.

This can go for sale for $12000 / year....Yes $1000 per month with the following no-nos.....

- No meters.
- Do not block cut curbs.
- Do not block traffic.
- Do not block fire hydrants.

Imagine the incredible revenue that this will generate. NYC pays plenty money to pave, light, sweep, and plow the streets. Many people never use a vehicle on the street. Let the ones who use a vehicle pay the actual cost of it.

I also feel that public transportation should NOT be subsidized. Raise the subway fare about $1.00 and that will turn the system profitable.

City workers should also be able to sell, rent, or give away their free parking permit and collect anything they can get for it.

If I were a rookie cop making $25000 / year I will gladly increase my pay by 50% by renting my permit to some bigshot.

You might even treat these parking permits like a taxi medallion. There should be a limited number of them.

In neighborhoods where there is no demand for parking I feel that the city should still charge people something modest to cover road costs, say $50 / month. That will generate millions for the city.

All of this fighting is crazy. The city cannot pay its workers enough. So let it give the workers something that costs the city and the taxpayers nothing.

Keyspanguy the city can pay its workers more money they just chose not to. The city has a 4 billion dollar surplus we will never see that money. The PBA,DEA,SBA,LBA,CEA have been without a contract for over two years and the city holds on to that money and collects interest on it and is in no hurry to pay its employees a decent salary. You reap what you sow and unfortunately the city is gambling with the lives of its citizens by not paying cops. A few years from now you will see another big corruption scandal, its inevitable it happens in cycles. The combination of low pay. low morale and the idiots the city is hiring makes the situatuion ripe. FOrget about selling our permits rookie cops might have to sell their uniforms just to make ends meet. I made more in 1993 when I came on than these rookies make now and that is disgraceful.

It is funny how some of you morons choose to call a S.E.Z imaginary but the fact remains that it is a reality to all those who enforce the traffic regulations of this city. One thing is certain and that is that an mos would never ever receive a summons inside or outside of a S.E.Z. This is just reality. This will never change and the this site has made that quite clear. A S.E.Z might be imaginary to you but when it boils down to it it is real to me and to the thousands of cops and traffic agents in and around the city.

My god, I love my N.Y.P.D parking permit.

Keyspanguy, you said alot in post #62. Here is my answer to all of it:

NYC already has municiple parking lots, many of them, often near points of interest, or transportation.

I'm not sure how much it costs, but it is nowhere near $1000/m. My guess would be around $300. This would both make sence, and be competitive with other parking lots.

Now, if the city made lots near police precincts, fire houses, and such for it's employees I could guarantee you that illegal parking would drop DRAMATICALLY.

Umm, this next park is where I lose you. You claim many people never used the street, so make cars pay. Ok, except for the fact that EVERYONE uses the street. Do you hover above it somehow? Are sidewalks not paved in your part of the city? Do lights not help you see at night, or help you cross durring the day? (In in the low traffic neighborhoods the city does still charge for road use, it's called the city TAX. Part of which, goes to roads and other city needs. This is why everyone pays taxes.)

And, the next part gets even more wild. You want city employees to engagre in corrupt behavior? Selling plaques and parking spaces? Thank god you are not in charge of this city. I don't know how familiar you are with city history but the selling of city services was a boon on this city for hundreds of years. Tammaney Politicians, such as Boss Tweed, sold anything they could. Judgeships, civil service jobs, votes, etc. I'm sure this is not a system anyone would like to go back to.

(Oh btw, there is a limited number of permits already. One per person. The ICO makes sure of this.)

Your last sentance sums it all up: "All of this fighting is crazy. The city cannot pay its workers enough. So let it give the workers something that costs the city and the taxpayers nothing."

THAT is what everyone with a parking plaque is already doing. It costs the city nothing, and the employee gets a benefit (saving money on parking) which the city will not rightfully give them (3+ years without a contract). So, what is everyone angry about?

Sorry, I had to post that as two parts. Both #66 and #67 are the same post. Thanks!

From Today's NY Post -- By JOHN MAZOR and DAN MANGAN
May 21, 2007 -- The abuse of parking placard privileges by city workers is "out of control," and seriously hurting business and the quality of life downtown, a city councilman charged yesterday.

"Lower Manhattan cannot become one big parking lot for [cars] with placards - and that's what's happened," said Councilman Alan Gerson.

There is a crack in the dam. The politicians are beginning to notice what is going on here and the cops and firemen live outside the city and can't vote them out. Next election time should be interesting. SEZ and privledged parking may have seen its end.

I seriously doubt it but keep dreaming

Oh like politicians are saints. Do you really think that they don't use the same priveledge? Keep thinking that the politicians will do something about it. It is good press for them but when it comes down to it they don't want to lose their perks also, yes they are the same perks.

#70 You said "cops and firemen live outside the city". I'm tired of hearing this. Everyone makes it sound like every single city worker lives outside this city. Thats B.S.

I live in Queens and work in Brooklyn. And a majority of the guy I work with live in either Queens, Brooklyn, or Staten Island. Only a handful live in Long Island.

Unfortunatly, more and more of us are being forced farther and farther out (the far end of SI or yes, to LI) because we can't afford to live in the city we protect. Pay us a wage that will let us with work in the city, and own a house here, and then I'm sure alot of us would not have to flee.

#70 AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#9: You are right, nobody denying it,

#80: are you a typical NYPD bully? I think Steve writes rather well and has a pretty good grip on the situation. I think you have no clue.I hope you don't do a lot of testifying on the facts

#55, leaks in your precinct house sound like a bummer but but they are not the point of this site. I don't buy that the ICO gets to make up his own SEZ, show me where is says he can.

#58, you are off point, car in post in not in any valid SEZ regardless of what permit is being used.

#61 agree that cops who are entitled to parking accomodation should not get ticket first, then fight it, its a waste of time; let's just change system so only those who need accomodation get it.

#62 has basic concept right, make people pay more for parking, don't give it away free except to the public employees who actually need it to do their job (those required to work in their personally-owned vehicle or subject to unpredictable OT), but claim that giving free parking to public employees costs the public "nothing" is ridiculous--look at the posts on this site to see why.

#65 is just corrupt and embarasses self-respecting LE.

#69-70 right you are.

#72 I agree and have posted on this site one of the most corrupt things I have ever seen--Parks department giving away free citywide parking passes (two of them) to retired Parks department bureaucrats so they can park their Connecticut-plated and insured cars in NYC. (http://nyc.uncivilservants.org/post/index/648)Interesting how not a single LE commented on those posts, presumably because they think their interest lie with those bureaucrats on the permit issue. How pathetically deluded!

#81, thank you.

Steve, you said "leaks in your precinct house sound like a bummer but but they are not the point of this site. I don't buy that the ICO gets to make up his own SEZ, show me where is says he can."

You are right, leaks arenot the point of this site. Parking is. And parking is dirrectly related to the size of the antiquated precincts we work in. Their are many precincts that have parking lots, both for police vehichles, and employee cars. However, a vast majority of precincts are too old, too small, and falling apart. This problem dirrectly relates to the parking problem. I have your solution:

BUILD NEW PRECINCTS WITH ADDIQUATE PARKING!

I don't know that the ICO "can" disignate the SEZ. All I know is that he does. As the officer in charge of right and wrong in the precicnt, he is the one that decides whos parking is and is not acceptible around the neighborhood.

-Number Fiftyfive

Acknowledging the leaks nonetheless.

It's nice to see Steve is still young and innocent. If he's shocked by that, wait until he finds out what's really going on.

Allow me to refresh everybody's memory of how this thread started in case any have forgotten:

You are such a retard

Comment by Anonymous commenter on Wed, May 16 2007 09:21 PM

Hello Steve- this is "old" #58 and now "revised" #33. I'm sorry you think I'm "off point" but I'll try to explain myself again. You claim in "revised" post #31 that Third Avenue is not part of the SEZ based on the website definition: "These permits are only valid when used on the block faces immediately adjacent to the precinct or the division headquarters, and only in the parking spaces on the street..."

I tried to illustrate that just as the "definition" is wrong regarding the physical description (layout) of a parking permit it is wrong in delineating the boundaries of a SEZ. Second Avenue and Third Avenue are included in the 13th Pct, ESS #1, Police Academy and Patrol Borough Manhattan South combined SEZ.